Vance is so hard to understand because he doesn’t understand himself. He is adept at facile explanations that sound plausible but really are intended to obfuscate the truth, and in writing them, he starts to believe his own BS.
You attempt to distinguish Vance from some other potential candidates by describing the others as aligned with “Silicon Valley technocrats,” but Vance is the worst example of that type. He was invented by Peter Thiel, who enticed him into the world of venture capital (and big bucks - not the football kind), and he remains Thiel’s puppet. Apparently, Vance is smart enough to think for himself, but does he?
Vance claims to be a Christian, but he doesn’t understand the concept of the parable - a story told to illustrate a point. Vance didn’t “make up a story” about Haitians in Springfield, he tried to convince the world it was true. Now those real people are on the verge of deportation because Trump believed him. (The only thing Trump is “best” at is gullibility.) One thing Trump and Vance have in common: inability to learn from their mistakes and admit they were wrong. Vance still owes the city of Springfield an apology, but they will never get it.
It doesn’t matter what Vance says about anything, because he will say anything if he thinks it will gain him an advantage. Let’s hope the electorate is less gullible than Trump.
Astute comment. Especially the Peter Thiel part, whom he credits as a real Christian in the book. But Vance is a troubled young man and I'm not going to question his journey. Just the awful things he's done along the way.
You make yourself sound even more stupid when you say that you know what Vance thinks. You aren't intelligent enough to understand what Vance thinks. And the Hattians in Springfield are third world thieves gaming the system. They gotta go.
One simple fact may explain it. Catholics are the largest denomination in America. Keeps him Christian, which gives some more space from Usha and her religion, which could be a drag on his getting elected. Wives have been known to affect a candidate's pull.
I have long believed that Vance is a current incarnation of TS Elliott's infamous Hollow Man, but I find myself wondering if a fairer characterization would be as one of James Barrie's Lost Boys of Neverland. In Barrie's original book (definitely NOT the same by far as the Disney movie or Broadway play would have it) Peter Pan is actually a dark character--a boy who refuses the duties, responsibilities and mutual relationships of a grownup man. Why? Because he apparently lacked role models. Vance seems to have lacked sustaining ones, too, especially a stable father figure. So, as a Lost Boy he's allowed himself to be led by at least a couple of Pans--Peter Thiel and Donald Trump. But because he's smart he eventually sees through them, and maybe is now seeking better role models and mentors in the likes of Thomas Aquinas and Augustine. Would that he understood Jesus the moral avatar and prophetic seer as opposed to layered on godman of a type prominent in the mythology of the Romans of his time. (See Mithras.) Because the teachings of Jesus are those of an exceptionally mature man, who also loved, respected, and stood up for women. I hope he keeps delving into the teacher vs. the institutions built in his name.
Thomas Edsal is an idiot. So is Frank Bruni. Anyone who believes either of them is even further down the IQ curve.
Having faith that Jesus Christ is who he says he is easy; look at how many firsthand witnesses submitted themselves to horrendous deaths, like crucifixion. No human could stand that torture if they didn’t believe what they saw. It is different to believe a myth than it is to believe what you experience firsthand.
I like Vance. I like that he smacked down Zelinski for disrespecting the oval office. Whichever way he chooses to practice his faith is between him and our Lord. No one, especially a democrat pundit is intelligent and knowledgeable enough to question it. And as Klein admits, he just doesn’t understand.
Thank God for President Trump, the greatest president of our lifetime. And thank President Trump for all the entertainment watching the TDS inflicted throw their juvenile temper tantrums throwing their toys out of the pram. You just can’t buy this entertainment.
Actually, being called an idiot by someone who considers Trump to be the greatest president in our lifetimes is an honor, given Trump’s legion of failures.
Have you heard of Trump's Iran war? He is the only US president to both start a war and then lose it. Quite the accomplishment! The fact that you do not even realize this says it all about your worship of Trump - either that or you are just a troll. On second thought, it is both - troll and blind to reality.
You continue to prove my point. Is it physically painful to be so stupid? And you make yourself sound even more stupid when you try to say you know what I think. You aren't intelligent enough to understand what I think. And the only one I worship is my Lord and Savior.
Try to keep up, it's really simple, the apocalyptic IRGC cannot have a nuclear weapon. President Trump is the only US president to have the gonads to make sure they don't and he is doing it even in an election year. And he has to deal with residual of the disastrous Obama/Kerry's blunder of flying plane loads of cash to fund their nuclear development. While the Trump hating idiots in the media root against President Trump and the US in this conflict, President Trump masterfully weaves through the art of the deal employing both the carrot and the stick.
So sit down, shut up and let the master show you how it's done. You may be able to achieve some semblance of intellectual capacity to understand some small part of the dealmaker in chief's genius.
When I read "Elegy" I was at first moved by his admission and confirmation of everyone’s stereotype of the economic, political, philosophical, psychological, addictive state of hillybillyness. But then I got the feeling that this was a big branding scam, meant to further divide us, give us permission to look down on a ‘labeled bunch of folks who exist only in some kind of average, if at all. It was a strawman for his demonstration of how great he is and how far he'd come. It was his introduction to national coverage, reinforced by his very public marriage to a woman of eastern Indian heritage, a US born daughter of immigrants, and his very public conversion to Catholicism, which he feels gives him cred to criticize the Pope. I suspect everything he says, am embarrassed by much of what he says publicly as a representative of our great country. I am monumentally disappointed by his eschewing the promises of his religion; his inability to live up to his oath to our country, our Constitution and our rule of law as recited at his inauguration; his ad hominem attacks of those who disagree with him. I gasp at his drug-addled like facile conjuring up of false issues and stereotypes - dog-eating Springfield Haitians as one example - so he can bloviate his twisted and typically cruel 'solutions'. A creation of the Thiel/Putin/Orbach/Xi Axis gang, he appears to be ‘Venture Candidate’, today's version of the Manchurian one. He’s the drunk at the end of the bar that everyone considers unhinged, laughs at and forgets, who staggers home late at night. Trouble is his home is in our government. He’s at least as dangerous as the orange guy, and he really wants to be President.
I had no idea Hillbilly Elegy was some sort of political statement. I just thought it was a good book. I am amazed that the sensibility that produced that book also reiterated the disgusting lies about Haitians eating pets in Ohio.
Interesting take. Vance is an enigma to me. Obviously he is no saint but he certainly is no dummy.
Reading through this and seeing Brit Stephens say he would vote for AOC seemed to question the sanity of Stephens. If Vance should become the nominee in 2028 does anyone seriously believe she could spar with Vance? I suspect that Stephens knows this match-up will not happen so it was a pledge Stephens will never actually have to carry out.
Vance probably wanted to curry favor with Trump when he supported Trump in the Zylensky meeting. I suspect that Vance is concerned that Trump might support Rubio in 2028. Let us hope and pray that Trump will be irrelevant then. Another day with Trump is one day too many as he is obviously a certifiable lunatic and ignoramus.
First, here's hoping that the fact people use AOC as a kind of "worst case scenario" on the Democratic side will convince voters in '28 to support . . . well, someone a bit more electable. But the performance of Vance in that Oval Office travesty with Zelenskyy alone disqualifies him for consideration as a serious candidate. And, while I expect that all that intellectual heft that the Catholics carry about with them (Aquinas! Newman! Waugh! CS Lewis! was attractive to him, I cannot help but observe that, when put to the test, conservative Catholics find their way toward accommodation and rationalization. From Vichy France to post-war Poland, right wing Catholics were well represented among the collaborators (and the Pope didn't exactly cover himself in glory either). If Vance is representative of current Christian moral philosophy well . . . God help us.
I respectfully disagree. I never say anyone is disqualified because he says something stupid. By that measure most of Congress would be disqualified and they continually make stupid statements.
I don’t know who I might vote for in 2028. I would love to see a one on one match between Rubio and Rahm. I could easily vote for either one. I would love to see a debate between them.
What I want most of all is that we endure until 2028 and give the heave-ho to Trump and his toadies. Then we might have at least a smidgen of a chance surviving as an intact nation.
If I may, I believe every day that we can promote the obvious fact that he is incompetent and that he is the “CEO” of the United States and must not continue is perhaps the more effective strategy.
Obviously that he is a horrible person, a congenital liar and all around odious person is obvious to anyone with eyes and ears. People will accept that if he is competent. But he is not, and therefore has a duty to resign or be fired.
Thank you for the article, Mr. Klein. One last name he had was Bowman plus three other last names. I didn’t care for the movie. It’s said he doesn’t have true Hillbilly blood. I do though. I’m related to the Hatfields and the McCoy’s .
Vance is so hard to understand because he doesn’t understand himself. He is adept at facile explanations that sound plausible but really are intended to obfuscate the truth, and in writing them, he starts to believe his own BS.
You attempt to distinguish Vance from some other potential candidates by describing the others as aligned with “Silicon Valley technocrats,” but Vance is the worst example of that type. He was invented by Peter Thiel, who enticed him into the world of venture capital (and big bucks - not the football kind), and he remains Thiel’s puppet. Apparently, Vance is smart enough to think for himself, but does he?
Vance claims to be a Christian, but he doesn’t understand the concept of the parable - a story told to illustrate a point. Vance didn’t “make up a story” about Haitians in Springfield, he tried to convince the world it was true. Now those real people are on the verge of deportation because Trump believed him. (The only thing Trump is “best” at is gullibility.) One thing Trump and Vance have in common: inability to learn from their mistakes and admit they were wrong. Vance still owes the city of Springfield an apology, but they will never get it.
It doesn’t matter what Vance says about anything, because he will say anything if he thinks it will gain him an advantage. Let’s hope the electorate is less gullible than Trump.
Astute comment. Especially the Peter Thiel part, whom he credits as a real Christian in the book. But Vance is a troubled young man and I'm not going to question his journey. Just the awful things he's done along the way.
You make yourself sound even more stupid when you say that you know what Vance thinks. You aren't intelligent enough to understand what Vance thinks. And the Hattians in Springfield are third world thieves gaming the system. They gotta go.
Yep. Vance is not a contradiction, but someone who will say anything to get ahead, and even that doesn't seem to be working
So how exactly has Vance confronted his supporters with truths they may not like? Shakespeare would have had a field day with Vance.
One simple fact may explain it. Catholics are the largest denomination in America. Keeps him Christian, which gives some more space from Usha and her religion, which could be a drag on his getting elected. Wives have been known to affect a candidate's pull.
I have long believed that Vance is a current incarnation of TS Elliott's infamous Hollow Man, but I find myself wondering if a fairer characterization would be as one of James Barrie's Lost Boys of Neverland. In Barrie's original book (definitely NOT the same by far as the Disney movie or Broadway play would have it) Peter Pan is actually a dark character--a boy who refuses the duties, responsibilities and mutual relationships of a grownup man. Why? Because he apparently lacked role models. Vance seems to have lacked sustaining ones, too, especially a stable father figure. So, as a Lost Boy he's allowed himself to be led by at least a couple of Pans--Peter Thiel and Donald Trump. But because he's smart he eventually sees through them, and maybe is now seeking better role models and mentors in the likes of Thomas Aquinas and Augustine. Would that he understood Jesus the moral avatar and prophetic seer as opposed to layered on godman of a type prominent in the mythology of the Romans of his time. (See Mithras.) Because the teachings of Jesus are those of an exceptionally mature man, who also loved, respected, and stood up for women. I hope he keeps delving into the teacher vs. the institutions built in his name.
Thomas Edsal is an idiot. So is Frank Bruni. Anyone who believes either of them is even further down the IQ curve.
Having faith that Jesus Christ is who he says he is easy; look at how many firsthand witnesses submitted themselves to horrendous deaths, like crucifixion. No human could stand that torture if they didn’t believe what they saw. It is different to believe a myth than it is to believe what you experience firsthand.
I like Vance. I like that he smacked down Zelinski for disrespecting the oval office. Whichever way he chooses to practice his faith is between him and our Lord. No one, especially a democrat pundit is intelligent and knowledgeable enough to question it. And as Klein admits, he just doesn’t understand.
Thank God for President Trump, the greatest president of our lifetime. And thank President Trump for all the entertainment watching the TDS inflicted throw their juvenile temper tantrums throwing their toys out of the pram. You just can’t buy this entertainment.
Here you are, calling Trump "the greatest president of our lifetime," and then referring to others as idiots.
Precisely. Thanks for proving my point.
Actually, being called an idiot by someone who considers Trump to be the greatest president in our lifetimes is an honor, given Trump’s legion of failures.
What failures? Sorry that this is all too complicated for your limited intellect.
Have you heard of Trump's Iran war? He is the only US president to both start a war and then lose it. Quite the accomplishment! The fact that you do not even realize this says it all about your worship of Trump - either that or you are just a troll. On second thought, it is both - troll and blind to reality.
You continue to prove my point. Is it physically painful to be so stupid? And you make yourself sound even more stupid when you try to say you know what I think. You aren't intelligent enough to understand what I think. And the only one I worship is my Lord and Savior.
Try to keep up, it's really simple, the apocalyptic IRGC cannot have a nuclear weapon. President Trump is the only US president to have the gonads to make sure they don't and he is doing it even in an election year. And he has to deal with residual of the disastrous Obama/Kerry's blunder of flying plane loads of cash to fund their nuclear development. While the Trump hating idiots in the media root against President Trump and the US in this conflict, President Trump masterfully weaves through the art of the deal employing both the carrot and the stick.
So sit down, shut up and let the master show you how it's done. You may be able to achieve some semblance of intellectual capacity to understand some small part of the dealmaker in chief's genius.
When I read "Elegy" I was at first moved by his admission and confirmation of everyone’s stereotype of the economic, political, philosophical, psychological, addictive state of hillybillyness. But then I got the feeling that this was a big branding scam, meant to further divide us, give us permission to look down on a ‘labeled bunch of folks who exist only in some kind of average, if at all. It was a strawman for his demonstration of how great he is and how far he'd come. It was his introduction to national coverage, reinforced by his very public marriage to a woman of eastern Indian heritage, a US born daughter of immigrants, and his very public conversion to Catholicism, which he feels gives him cred to criticize the Pope. I suspect everything he says, am embarrassed by much of what he says publicly as a representative of our great country. I am monumentally disappointed by his eschewing the promises of his religion; his inability to live up to his oath to our country, our Constitution and our rule of law as recited at his inauguration; his ad hominem attacks of those who disagree with him. I gasp at his drug-addled like facile conjuring up of false issues and stereotypes - dog-eating Springfield Haitians as one example - so he can bloviate his twisted and typically cruel 'solutions'. A creation of the Thiel/Putin/Orbach/Xi Axis gang, he appears to be ‘Venture Candidate’, today's version of the Manchurian one. He’s the drunk at the end of the bar that everyone considers unhinged, laughs at and forgets, who staggers home late at night. Trouble is his home is in our government. He’s at least as dangerous as the orange guy, and he really wants to be President.
I had no idea Hillbilly Elegy was some sort of political statement. I just thought it was a good book. I am amazed that the sensibility that produced that book also reiterated the disgusting lies about Haitians eating pets in Ohio.
Interesting take. Vance is an enigma to me. Obviously he is no saint but he certainly is no dummy.
Reading through this and seeing Brit Stephens say he would vote for AOC seemed to question the sanity of Stephens. If Vance should become the nominee in 2028 does anyone seriously believe she could spar with Vance? I suspect that Stephens knows this match-up will not happen so it was a pledge Stephens will never actually have to carry out.
Vance probably wanted to curry favor with Trump when he supported Trump in the Zylensky meeting. I suspect that Vance is concerned that Trump might support Rubio in 2028. Let us hope and pray that Trump will be irrelevant then. Another day with Trump is one day too many as he is obviously a certifiable lunatic and ignoramus.
First, here's hoping that the fact people use AOC as a kind of "worst case scenario" on the Democratic side will convince voters in '28 to support . . . well, someone a bit more electable. But the performance of Vance in that Oval Office travesty with Zelenskyy alone disqualifies him for consideration as a serious candidate. And, while I expect that all that intellectual heft that the Catholics carry about with them (Aquinas! Newman! Waugh! CS Lewis! was attractive to him, I cannot help but observe that, when put to the test, conservative Catholics find their way toward accommodation and rationalization. From Vichy France to post-war Poland, right wing Catholics were well represented among the collaborators (and the Pope didn't exactly cover himself in glory either). If Vance is representative of current Christian moral philosophy well . . . God help us.
I respectfully disagree. I never say anyone is disqualified because he says something stupid. By that measure most of Congress would be disqualified and they continually make stupid statements.
I don’t know who I might vote for in 2028. I would love to see a one on one match between Rubio and Rahm. I could easily vote for either one. I would love to see a debate between them.
What I want most of all is that we endure until 2028 and give the heave-ho to Trump and his toadies. Then we might have at least a smidgen of a chance surviving as an intact nation.
If I may, I believe every day that we can promote the obvious fact that he is incompetent and that he is the “CEO” of the United States and must not continue is perhaps the more effective strategy.
Obviously that he is a horrible person, a congenital liar and all around odious person is obvious to anyone with eyes and ears. People will accept that if he is competent. But he is not, and therefore has a duty to resign or be fired.
Highly informative, per usual. Check out my new Substack, "Anything Here?" best, RDR
>Catholicism, a faith considered sorcery by many evangelical sects?
Not true, many R base are into saying they are Catholics, TPUSA all in. It is not seen as a negative, really now a positive
Pretty obvious what is going on. Vance wants to secure a large chunk of base by saying he believes in and worships Christ.
That is all it takes for many, just look at Steve Deace's 100% early endorsement (which is a key to Iowa)
Thank you for the article, Mr. Klein. One last name he had was Bowman plus three other last names. I didn’t care for the movie. It’s said he doesn’t have true Hillbilly blood. I do though. I’m related to the Hatfields and the McCoy’s .