The half life of rhetoric these days is about half a week. I don't think the call to arms counts for anything. I continue in my belief that what has fueled the rise of Trump and allies is not any affection for Trump, but the emphatic rejection of the Democratic progressives' calcification of the moderate liberalism that has become the mean of the temper of the American public. Trump isn't loved. He's tolerated, because he wars against those excesses.
To the extent Charlie Kirk, whose work I don't know that well, pressed for a revision of that calcified progressiveism, and a return to basics, he was a positive influence and will remain so. To the extent Trump or Steven Miller or anyone else tries to mount a crusade that goes beyond that necessary revisionism, they are in for one of the coldest showers in American history. I don't think the American public is interested in anything more than resetting the balance.
Despite the fulminations of the New York Times, CNN, and the rest of the legacy media which still has not got the message (any more than Stephen Miller), the amazing fundamental tolerance of the American public remains unchanged.
We should all strive to be Erika Kirk. However, the inability to possess her graciousness is neither fascism, nor Nazism. A reference to dragons is a missed opportunity and inarticulate. What it is not, is the 2nd coming of the Third Reich.
Donald Trump is nearly 80 years old and term limited by both law and life. Trump is going to continue to use the same language, he has always utilized. Mostly because he likes the pearl clutching it produces on the Left. Dems can continue to provide him with feedback he seeks, or ignore him, secure in the knowledge Trump is nearly 25% thru his final term.
People are welcome to continue to be vocally appalled by Trump's behavior, or they can appreciate the Founder's wisdom in designing the most incredible form of government known in the history of man, and deny Trump the attention he craves. It is their choice.
The federal government was designed to be remote, contemplative and incremental in its' movement and policies. For more than two centuries, DC overwhelmingly operated as intended. Biden changed that, and now the country must deal with the ramifications. Trump being one of them. The situation is neither ideal, nor the end of the Republic. The one thing we know for sure, is this too will pass, even if some pretend it will not.
Erika Kirk may be gracious and sincere - both in her eulogy yesterday and in the daily messsages she sends me every day (not sure how I got on the Turning Point mailing list) but the world she and Charlie promoted is far from the Christian world I and my fellow Christians have been working to create for the last 40 years. This Christianist movement is creating a world that is greedy , destructive and cruel.
I can forgive the fact that Charlie’s mentor is the most corrupt President in US history, by far.
I can forgive the the effort to cut off American children from critical food assistance.
I can forgive the war on science that will halt the progress of madical advances and the use of established vaccines that will lead to deaths of gullible and vulnerable Americans.
I can forgive the greed and venality that is leading us into stagflation and setting us back decades in our effort to be economically competitive with the rest of the world.
I can forgive the insane opposition to the effort to save God’s creation - our planet - condemning future gerarions to struggle.
I can forgive the sneering at real people of God - Pope Francis, Martin Luther King, the many Archbishops who have called out the Administration’s creation of brutal concentration camps.
But what I can’t forgive are the cuts that Charlie’s heros made to USAID, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands -and maybe hundreds of thousands- who had come to rely on the good graces of people they thought they could trust. Which they could until these so-called Christians came along. The Lord’s Prayer says “Deliver us from evil”. In 2025, that means “Deliver us from Trump, Miller and their many enablers.”
Actually, I can't forgive many of the things you say you can--though, Curtis, I don't think you really forgive them, either. What I'm saying here is that the more the movement bends toward grace, the more it may think twice about evil. Not sure I'm right. But you gotta hope.
There is currently a conflict in each of the Abrahamic faiths between the forces of hard, dark certitude and the mushy middle of good will. In the world of Christianity, that hard side is undoing two great nations -the US and Russia. In the world of Judaism, it is leading to the isolation and corruption of the State of Israel, with dire consequences. Most heartbreakingly, in the world of Islam, the hard side is subjugating and suppressing the great people of Iran. I have seen great liberations in my time - the Poles, the Argentinians, the Syrians - and my great hope is that I will live to see four more.
This center-left Catholic finds much common ground with conservative evangelicals when it comes to Jesus' basic teachings. Just as Charlie Kirk's widow had the courage to model. Like you, Joel, I was struck by the contrast when Trump spoke right after. He outed himself. In his own words. Right there. Before the cameras. I don't know how ANY professed Christian can support a man so antithetical to our most universal beliefs.
This center-left Catholic finds much common ground with conservative evangelicals when it comes to Jesus' basic teachings. Just as Charlie Kirk's widow had the courage to model. Like you, Joe, I was struck by the contrast when Trump spoke right after. He outed himself. In his own words. Right there. Before the cameras. I don't know how ANY professed Christian can support a man so antithetical to our most universal beliefs.
Nice piece. Very perceptive. I think however that you are far too charitable in granting Christian status to the likes of Trump and Miller. Those guys ain't Christian by any measure. They probably think Christians are suckers. I mean, I know that they say they're Christian but you do realize they all lie without giving it any thought. No?
Personally I think Charlie Kirk will be forgotten in six months but then we all know making these kinds of predictions is a sucker's game. So who knows.
I've been pleasantly surprised by how nuanced the commentary on this event has been even from the left. If only the commentary on his murder had been as careful rather than overwhelmingly callous, particularly on the social feeds of so many high-profile "progressive" platforms.
All religions at their worst appear to stress their own exclusivity in connecting with God. They view their set of beliefs as constituting the best path if not the only true path in finding a communion with a Higher Power. Conversely, at their best, they stress the need to exhibit the best qualities of humanity, be it kindness, compassion, acceptance of the stranger, care for those weaker than themselves, etc.. In the current form of Christian Nationalism or Fundamentalism and all its iterations, too often many of its adherents are of the exclusive mind set. There’s very little acceptance of those who do not follow the tenets of their faith. Since a majority of Americans identify themselves with a different set of beliefs, or no religious beliefs at all, this sets up at tremendous friction within American communal life. It is one thing to adhere to one’s faith within the confines of fellow believers, it becomes a very different story when those same people want to impose that set on all of America. That is the fundamental problem with what Charlie Kirk espoused. By connecting himself to a political person and to a larger political party, he introduced the danger of supporting people who could have the power to impose those sets of beliefs on all Americans. Religion as practiced in private and expressed in good deeds towards one fellow humans is great. Religion tied to political power becomes not only problematic but dangerous. Kirk and others decided to make the latter choice. If he believed that gay people should not marry, or Black people should not have the protections of Civil Rights laws, or that women should be at home and support their husbands, he had every right to hold those beliefs. None of those beliefs however, were necessarily shared by millions of others and that’s when that tension can, on rare occasions, spill over to violence. It is sad when the reaction to his murder is not to blame the killer alone, but to extend blame to all those who did not share Charlie Kirk’s beliefs. Not sharing his viewpoint did not set up an environment for violence but violence in a democracy is always a possibility. Protests can get heated and messy and things can sometimes get broken. All fair minded people want to see peaceful protest as the best means to express discontent. The essence of democracy is where all viewpoints are allowed in the marketplace of opinion. People not agreeing with Kirk is not to blame for one deluded and likely mentally imbalanced person deciding to murder someone with whom he did not agree. If only we could keep it to that.
Hmmm. I sense a tincture of the phony intellectualism and extreme intolerance that characterized a former commenter here, name of Deplore This. But let me tell you as I told him: You're paying for the privilege of commenting here. Have at it! Criticize me all you like, but you only do yourself a disservice when you slime the thoughtful, worthy members of the Sanity community. Their intelligence, civility and complexity must present a real problem for you.
The half life of rhetoric these days is about half a week. I don't think the call to arms counts for anything. I continue in my belief that what has fueled the rise of Trump and allies is not any affection for Trump, but the emphatic rejection of the Democratic progressives' calcification of the moderate liberalism that has become the mean of the temper of the American public. Trump isn't loved. He's tolerated, because he wars against those excesses.
To the extent Charlie Kirk, whose work I don't know that well, pressed for a revision of that calcified progressiveism, and a return to basics, he was a positive influence and will remain so. To the extent Trump or Steven Miller or anyone else tries to mount a crusade that goes beyond that necessary revisionism, they are in for one of the coldest showers in American history. I don't think the American public is interested in anything more than resetting the balance.
Despite the fulminations of the New York Times, CNN, and the rest of the legacy media which still has not got the message (any more than Stephen Miller), the amazing fundamental tolerance of the American public remains unchanged.
Agree, especially with the last sentence.
We should all strive to be Erika Kirk. However, the inability to possess her graciousness is neither fascism, nor Nazism. A reference to dragons is a missed opportunity and inarticulate. What it is not, is the 2nd coming of the Third Reich.
Donald Trump is nearly 80 years old and term limited by both law and life. Trump is going to continue to use the same language, he has always utilized. Mostly because he likes the pearl clutching it produces on the Left. Dems can continue to provide him with feedback he seeks, or ignore him, secure in the knowledge Trump is nearly 25% thru his final term.
People are welcome to continue to be vocally appalled by Trump's behavior, or they can appreciate the Founder's wisdom in designing the most incredible form of government known in the history of man, and deny Trump the attention he craves. It is their choice.
The federal government was designed to be remote, contemplative and incremental in its' movement and policies. For more than two centuries, DC overwhelmingly operated as intended. Biden changed that, and now the country must deal with the ramifications. Trump being one of them. The situation is neither ideal, nor the end of the Republic. The one thing we know for sure, is this too will pass, even if some pretend it will not.
"term limited by both law and life.." -- absolutely the best line of the day.
Erika Kirk may be gracious and sincere - both in her eulogy yesterday and in the daily messsages she sends me every day (not sure how I got on the Turning Point mailing list) but the world she and Charlie promoted is far from the Christian world I and my fellow Christians have been working to create for the last 40 years. This Christianist movement is creating a world that is greedy , destructive and cruel.
I can forgive the fact that Charlie’s mentor is the most corrupt President in US history, by far.
I can forgive the the effort to cut off American children from critical food assistance.
I can forgive the war on science that will halt the progress of madical advances and the use of established vaccines that will lead to deaths of gullible and vulnerable Americans.
I can forgive the greed and venality that is leading us into stagflation and setting us back decades in our effort to be economically competitive with the rest of the world.
I can forgive the insane opposition to the effort to save God’s creation - our planet - condemning future gerarions to struggle.
I can forgive the sneering at real people of God - Pope Francis, Martin Luther King, the many Archbishops who have called out the Administration’s creation of brutal concentration camps.
But what I can’t forgive are the cuts that Charlie’s heros made to USAID, resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands -and maybe hundreds of thousands- who had come to rely on the good graces of people they thought they could trust. Which they could until these so-called Christians came along. The Lord’s Prayer says “Deliver us from evil”. In 2025, that means “Deliver us from Trump, Miller and their many enablers.”
Actually, I can't forgive many of the things you say you can--though, Curtis, I don't think you really forgive them, either. What I'm saying here is that the more the movement bends toward grace, the more it may think twice about evil. Not sure I'm right. But you gotta hope.
There is currently a conflict in each of the Abrahamic faiths between the forces of hard, dark certitude and the mushy middle of good will. In the world of Christianity, that hard side is undoing two great nations -the US and Russia. In the world of Judaism, it is leading to the isolation and corruption of the State of Israel, with dire consequences. Most heartbreakingly, in the world of Islam, the hard side is subjugating and suppressing the great people of Iran. I have seen great liberations in my time - the Poles, the Argentinians, the Syrians - and my great hope is that I will live to see four more.
This center-left Catholic finds much common ground with conservative evangelicals when it comes to Jesus' basic teachings. Just as Charlie Kirk's widow had the courage to model. Like you, Joel, I was struck by the contrast when Trump spoke right after. He outed himself. In his own words. Right there. Before the cameras. I don't know how ANY professed Christian can support a man so antithetical to our most universal beliefs.
Regarding Christianity: “Two men say they’re Jesus, one of them must be wrong!” - Mark Knopfler
Regarding the Mets: “I’m back in the saddle again” - Gene Autry 🤗
This center-left Catholic finds much common ground with conservative evangelicals when it comes to Jesus' basic teachings. Just as Charlie Kirk's widow had the courage to model. Like you, Joe, I was struck by the contrast when Trump spoke right after. He outed himself. In his own words. Right there. Before the cameras. I don't know how ANY professed Christian can support a man so antithetical to our most universal beliefs.
Nice piece. Very perceptive. I think however that you are far too charitable in granting Christian status to the likes of Trump and Miller. Those guys ain't Christian by any measure. They probably think Christians are suckers. I mean, I know that they say they're Christian but you do realize they all lie without giving it any thought. No?
Personally I think Charlie Kirk will be forgotten in six months but then we all know making these kinds of predictions is a sucker's game. So who knows.
Anyway, nice piece.
I thought I gave them the exact opposite of Christian status...
Right. I fear I've become a lazy reader in my dotage. Apologies
Who are you to decide who is Christian and who is not? What condescending arrogance.
I've been pleasantly surprised by how nuanced the commentary on this event has been even from the left. If only the commentary on his murder had been as careful rather than overwhelmingly callous, particularly on the social feeds of so many high-profile "progressive" platforms.
All religions at their worst appear to stress their own exclusivity in connecting with God. They view their set of beliefs as constituting the best path if not the only true path in finding a communion with a Higher Power. Conversely, at their best, they stress the need to exhibit the best qualities of humanity, be it kindness, compassion, acceptance of the stranger, care for those weaker than themselves, etc.. In the current form of Christian Nationalism or Fundamentalism and all its iterations, too often many of its adherents are of the exclusive mind set. There’s very little acceptance of those who do not follow the tenets of their faith. Since a majority of Americans identify themselves with a different set of beliefs, or no religious beliefs at all, this sets up at tremendous friction within American communal life. It is one thing to adhere to one’s faith within the confines of fellow believers, it becomes a very different story when those same people want to impose that set on all of America. That is the fundamental problem with what Charlie Kirk espoused. By connecting himself to a political person and to a larger political party, he introduced the danger of supporting people who could have the power to impose those sets of beliefs on all Americans. Religion as practiced in private and expressed in good deeds towards one fellow humans is great. Religion tied to political power becomes not only problematic but dangerous. Kirk and others decided to make the latter choice. If he believed that gay people should not marry, or Black people should not have the protections of Civil Rights laws, or that women should be at home and support their husbands, he had every right to hold those beliefs. None of those beliefs however, were necessarily shared by millions of others and that’s when that tension can, on rare occasions, spill over to violence. It is sad when the reaction to his murder is not to blame the killer alone, but to extend blame to all those who did not share Charlie Kirk’s beliefs. Not sharing his viewpoint did not set up an environment for violence but violence in a democracy is always a possibility. Protests can get heated and messy and things can sometimes get broken. All fair minded people want to see peaceful protest as the best means to express discontent. The essence of democracy is where all viewpoints are allowed in the marketplace of opinion. People not agreeing with Kirk is not to blame for one deluded and likely mentally imbalanced person deciding to murder someone with whom he did not agree. If only we could keep it to that.
As God pointed out, an eye for an eye, but Vengeance is Mine, thus saith the Lord.
Glad I didn’t tune it in, but Erika’s quotes are worthy of much as the Dylan Roof episode you pointed to.
Which comes soonest, the Second Coming of Adolph Hitler or the Second Coming of Jesus Christ?
Most Bible scholars know the answer . . . or they should.
When it's over and he is dead there must be a demagafication of America 🇺🇸
If dems ever win again, retribution must be swift. There must be Nuremberg trials of the Maga (Nazi) movement and their leaders.
Assume the above is satire?
Nope
It's "tenets" not "tenants.'' How can we accept the rest of your screed when you can't get that much correct?
Hmmm. I sense a tincture of the phony intellectualism and extreme intolerance that characterized a former commenter here, name of Deplore This. But let me tell you as I told him: You're paying for the privilege of commenting here. Have at it! Criticize me all you like, but you only do yourself a disservice when you slime the thoughtful, worthy members of the Sanity community. Their intelligence, civility and complexity must present a real problem for you.
Jack--Keep kicking in that $8 a month. We appreciate your support.